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/Fsg/ - Fascist / Third Position General /fsg/ 11/06/2019 (Wed) 22:34:06 ID:9d11a6 No. 13674
/Fsg/ - Fascist / Third Position General

Thread for discussion of Italian Fascism and other forms of Third Position Politics, Traditionalism, Corporatism, etc. Also for sharing Fascist literature and information.


http://www.conservapedia.com/Fascist_Manifesto,_1919

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

http://www.reakt.org/fiume/charter_of_carnaro.html

http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1389982155

Be respectful and please try to keep conversations relatively "intellectual".

Fascists and other influential people who lay the foundations of the philosphy of Fascism:

Oswald Mosely
Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera
Benito Mussolini
Adolf Hitler
Joseph Goebbels
Stepan Bandera
Corneliu Zelea Codreanu
Salazar
Ramiro Ledesma Ramos
Ettore Ovazza
Gaetano Mosca
Anton Drexler
Friedrich Nietzsche
Charles Maurras
Enrico Corradini
Filippo Tommaso Marinetti
Johann Plenge
Alceste De Ambris
Gabriele d'Annunzio
Juan Perón
Giovanni Gentile
Julius Evola
Plínio Salgado
Julius Caesar
Gottfried Feder

Types of Fascism/Third Positonism:

Italian Fascism
Falangism
National-Syndicalism
British Union of Fascists
National-Socialism
Strasserism
National-Bolshevism
Clerical Fascism
Brazilian Integralism
Peronism
Francoism
Estado Novo

Ba'athism, Nasserism, The Syrian Social Nationalist Party, and the 4th Political Theory are also allowed to be discussed.

"[Fascism] was an explosion against intolerable conditions, against remediable wrongs which the old world failed to remedy. It was a movement to secure national renaissance by people who felt themselves threatened with decline into decadence and death and were determined to live, and live greatly." ~Oswald Mosely
National socialism and strasserism are not fascist
>>13676
National socialism is a type of fascism
Strasserism is a type of national socialism
>>13700
checkd
>>13700
>National socialism is a type of fascism
No, it's not. The NSDAP leadership saw themselves as distinct from fascism.
>>13713
Fascism and National Socialism are extremely
similar ideologies.
This is of course due to the fact that National
Socialism is a derivative of Fascism
Nonetheless, many differences exist between the
two ideologies.
Most significantly, National Socialism is inherently
based around ethnic or racial nationalism, whereas
Fascism is not inherently based around any
specific form of nationalism, a Fascist can be a
civic nationalist, a cultural nationalist, an ethnic
nationalist, a racial nationalist, or a religious
nationalist.
This is why Fascism, in theory, is not a racist
ideology. Fascism does not inherently believe in
racial uniqueness or even the existence of
biological races, however, National Socialism does.
Fascism and National Socialism are both
totalitarian ideologies, however, National Socialist
states have historically been much more
totalitarian than Fascist states
It should be noted that the philosophy of these
ideologies in regards to the purpose of the
totalitarian state also differs. Fascism believes that
the totalitarian state is an end itself, whereas
National Socialism believes that the totalitarian
state is only a means to an end, that end being the
extension and preservation of the
people/race/ethnicity.
In general, perhaps the most significant difference
between the two ideologies are their foundations.
National Socialism has its foundation in biology, its
believes in the existence of biological races, and it
believes in biologically improving the people
through eugenics, in what essentially amounts to
social Darwinism. The entire ideology revolves
around this and stems from this.
>>13743
National Socialism is a German catchphrase that is honestly redundant but was simply part of the name of their movement which may have also helped clarify it from idiot civnats/lolbertarians. This obsession with German paraphernalia does not help, and that includes the catch phrase of National Socialism.
>>13762
I agree. While I think we can learn much from the NS period of Germany, and I revere Uncle Adolf, the simple fact is that too many normies have been so poisoned against NS Germany that any of the optics associated with it wil instantly repel most.

The friends that I talk to about Third Position politics say they would support most of the social and economic policies I explain, but if you told them they were "Nazi" policies they would instantly recoil.

>inb4 muh optics cuck
Yes. Hitler was an optics cuck, because he realized most people are lemmings, and eventually you must win a chunk of them over if your movement is to succeed.
>>13674
Also, thanks for starting this thread OP. The only thing I miss about cripplechan was the Fascist board. Quality discourse on there. Hopefully this thread can stay "classy and fashy" too.
>>14134
For me I think there is a bit of a legitimate culture mismatch, but I also don't think the jew lies help on either side. For the most part Hitler won people over when Weimar Germany was getting too bad, kind of like in Weimerica but here they made sure to turn the heat down into even more of a slow boil. I think the last thing we really need is more optics cucking/lying.
>>13743
NS isn't totalitarian
>>14148
There's nothing wrong with totalitarianism. We must be total and absolute in our defense of our people and to also be total and absolute in removing those try to crush us.
what the fuck is the fascist/National socialist economic model lads ?
heard it was labour based currency but couldn't find any good explain to it
>>14162
Yes there is. Totalitarianism is subjugation. Defense doesn't require totalitarianism.

>>14192
National Socialism is mixed economy. State involvement in the interest of the nation, but private property is maintained. The rhetoric is anti-capitalist in the sense of keeping undue power away from the interests of the state (especially a certain type of internationalist), but even more so anti-Marxist. The driving force of NS was anti-marxian.
It's not very cut and dry, and everyone has hot opinions on what NS stands for.

Fascism is an even more nebulous question. The short answer is that fascists aren't beholden to any single economic model.
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>>14134
True, if we actually want to make a difference, waving swastikas is not going to work. We may feel that this symbol represents ourselves, but nobody is bound to join any groups that use it other than those who already agree with the group. The lugenpresse may have done what they could to slander the national socialists at the time, but this was not enough. Nowadays however, every word about the nazis is negative, everyone around you has a negative view of them, and this viewpoint is shown one's whole life. Considering this, it would be nearly impossible to convince people to join you when you are saying you are using such a symbol. Many people however have not heard of the Black Sun, though the links to the swastika would be pointed out, so I am not sure about this either. One possibility is that a group is created that would only begin to use the Black Sun once its force is unstoppable. People are dumb, and optics counts a lot. Fortunately, we have an important tool: the memes.I think that more of pic related in that visual style should be spread.
>>14192
Money is created, but this creates inflation. Instead, whenever someone produces labour, the state creates money and they are paid it. This means that the more labour or items are produced, the people become richer. Something like that, I can't find the explaination.
>>13676
i could be wrong, but i thought third position encompassed more than fascism. it's just that fascism was probably the most prominent third position. even if that's wrong, i still get the impression this thread is basically fuck cappies and commies.
>>13743
Someone has read their Slavros.
>>14138
I agree, history will rhyme. Hitler himself said that the NS party never could have came to power without the calamity of Germany losing WWI and subsequent (((Weimar))) republic.

While things are getting bad in Weimerica, youre right, weve been on the slow boil. It will require some sort of national calamity to push us over the edge. And it will be the same as Germany; a fight against (((their))) factions for our very existance as a people. May the gods let us fare better in the end.
(1.82 MB 2000x1200 Blacksun Flag.png)
>>14225
the black sun is the best for both meaning and form imo however if there was a movement to start using it and that movement fell into obscurity or was defeated then the symbol loses its power so honestly it may be best to either wait to use symbols or go now
>>13674 Bump for quality thread and replies at bottom of catalog, that should survive the Saturday morning shills
>>14945 I hate to tell you, but America is a thousand times worse than Weimar was at its most degenerate point. I don't even think Hitler could have imagined the state of modern America if he tried to. In Weimer, the society was still homogenous and largely traditional, which is why there was such support for Hitler's reforms. American society is mongrelized, chemically lobotomized, briming with sexual perversion, and actively supports its own continued destruction. If it's not bad enough right now, then it never will be.
>>14945 We suffered a national calamity in the 2007 housing bubble/market crash. The Tea Party formed, and was coopted/quelled. Then OWS formed, and was coopted/quelled. Then Trump was elected, and his movement is coopted/being quelled. There is a greater game at play here and it's preventing us from fixing our internal problems through action, mobilization, and reform. Fascism won't solve anything until it's popularized, and this won't happen until it has a broad appeal across all peoples and races. That is why the ethnofascists here are a hindrance. They're playing a 21st century game like it's 1930. And losing.
Italian Fascism Falangism National-Syndicalism British Union of Fascists National-Socialism Strasserism National-Bolshevism Clerical Fascism Brazilian Integralism Peronism Francoism Estado Novo Any one of them are better than what we have now
>>13676 >>13700 National socialism is a distinct ideology separate from fascism. But it is an offshoot of fascism. >>18056 Franco isn't fascist just traditional religious conservatism
>>13713 >The NSDAP leadership saw themselves as distinct from fascism. Democratic socialists see themselves as distinct from socialism.
>>19447 False equivalence. The difference between natsoc and fascism is greater than the difference between demsocs and other types of socialism
>>19448 Funny. That's exactly what they say too. Seems like National Socialism is a kind of Fascism to me.
Anyone that denies NSDAP was not Fascistic has no idea of the meaning of fascio "Strength through Unity" Nazi Party 25 Points (1920) The 25 Points was a political manifesto issued by the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (NSDAP). It was proclaimed in February 24th 1920 by Adolf Hitler at the first large Party gathering in Munich. The Nazi hierarchy frequently referred to the 25 Points as an “unalterable expression” of the party’s political philosophy: 1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples. 2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain. 3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonisation for our surplus population. 4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently, no Jew can be a member of the race. 5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners. 6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities. 7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich. 8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich. 9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations. 10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand: 11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery. 12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits. 13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts). 14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries. 15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. 16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalisation of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality. 17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, the abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. 18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race. 19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world order. 20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child labour, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sports obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young. 22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army. 23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race. b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language. c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above demands. 24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility. 25. For the execution of all of this, we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration. >Every single point of the 25 is Fascistic If you are arguing Hitler-ism was not fascism then say so A Fascist Is: (aka Fascism for Dummies in less than 10min) https://www.bitchute.com/video/8ZNFr6idU1Wx/ THE NAZI ECONOMY https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ld8fxzEXZ2Qz/ >Compare the above to below FASCISM AS POLITICAL & ECONOMIC ORGANIZATION (Part 2 of a 3 part series on the book "The Philosophy of Fascism" by Mario Palmeri) https://www.bitchute.com/video/qy8B1PVifQcl/ >Nationalism is an ideology and movement that promotes the interests of a particular nation (as in a group of people) especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland. Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity, and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty). It further aims to build and maintain a single national identity—based on shared social characteristics such as culture, language, religion, politics, and belief in a shared singular history—and to promote national unity or solidarity. Nationalism, therefore, seeks to preserve and foster a nation's traditional culture, and cultural revivals have been associated with nationalist movements. It also encourages pride in national achievements, and is closely linked to patriotism. Nationalism is often combined with other ideologies, such as conservatism (national conservatism) or socialism (socialist nationalism) for example. —Jewpedia >>19448 Feel free to make an actual argument to back that statement >In what way is NS not Fascistic?
>>14945 >>16603 >>16620 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_2419_A.D. >Nowlan’s novella tells about the United States in the 25th century, conquered by Hans in 2109 AD and only now beginning to rebel. Sometime after World War I, nearly all the European powers joined forces against the United States. Although the US won the war, both sides were devastated by the conflict. Taking advantage of the chaos that followed, the "Russian Soviets" (Soviet Union) joined forces with the "Mongolians" to take over Europe. The US collapsed economically and stagnated while the "Mongolians" turned against the Russians and defeated them as part of their campaign of world conquest. Minutes the dates and slightly obsolete political identifiers, this sounds almost prophetic.
>>19448 >>19470 >>19478 >The term hardly has any cognitive reference at all. By and large, the term “fascism” has only pejorative uses. It is employed to disparage and defame. None of that should puzzle laypersons. It is a heritage of usage made commonplace during the Second World War. In the course of that war, the term “fascist” was employed to refer indiscriminately to both Mussolini’s Fascism and Hitler’s National Socialism—irrespective of the fact that serious National Socialist theoreticians rarely, if ever, referred to their belief system, their movement, or their regime as “fascist.” Similarly, Fascist intellectuals never identified their ideology or their political system as “National Socialist.” The notion of a generic fascism that encompassed Italian Fascism, German National Socialism, Spanish Falangism, Portugese National Syndicalism, the Hungarian Arrow Cross, and the Romanian Legion of the Archangel Michael, among an indeterminate number of others, was largely an artifact of the war. Rarely, if ever,was a serious comparative study undertaken that might provide the grounds for identification. As a result, membership of all or any of those political movements in the class of “fascisms” has been a matter of contention ever since.17 In our own time, any individual or group of individuals that might in some sense, or some measure, be identified as “extremely irrational,”18 “antidemocratic,” “racist,” or “nationalist,” is identified as “neofascist,” “parafascist,” “quasi-fascist,” or “cryptofascist.” “Fascism” has devolved into a conceptual term whose grasp far exceeds its reach—almost entirely devoid of any ability to offer empirical distinctions that might serve any cognitive purpose. Entirely devoid of meaning, the term is used arbitrarily, generally with little empirical reference to any historical, social, or political reality. Gregor, A. James. Mussolini's Intellectuals (pp. 4-5). Princeton University Press. Maybe if you actually read books on fascism you'd know the truth instead of get all your knowledge of fascism from anonymous anime imageboards.
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>>13674 Bump
>>19495 He never said that afaik, try looking for that quote online it seems like that quote was made up just to put on a imagemacro for websites like this
>>13674 Anyone here any other brand of Fascist besides NatSoc? I dont have any issue with other third postioners, i was just curious if anything else had any following here.
>>19495 Franco was a Jew >Quoting smoloko A good way to expose yourself as a shill/astroturfer
>>14192 Corporatist economics, natonal syndicalism.
>>13676 Offshoots of fascism.
>>13700 Strasserism is Marxism with a paint job and is more akin to Stalinism than National Socialism. National Socialism has always meant Socialism as in "Social Equity" and even in the DAP days Feder and Drexler were as anti-Marxist as Hitler was.
>>13762 >catchphrase National Socialism is not a catch phrase it describes us perfectly; We are Nationalists and we are also Socialists as a direct result of wanting what is best for our race as a whole.
>>14131 Hitler realized the masses were feminine so he used passion and strength to push his message and sober logic to win over the "intellects". What you are promoting is the idea of a "mass movement" which Hitler was against. "The moment a plan's creator attempts to consider so called "convenience" and "reality" instead of absolute truth, his work will no longer be a star seeking humanity and will become nothing more than an everyday procedure" - Adolf Hitler We have nothing to gain and everything to lose by cucking on our princibles , while still being called "Nazis" by the media and masses. Since when did we allow the Jewish media control over our doctrine and message?
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Why did popular opinion turn against the Italian government in late WWII? I never quite understood, guessing it was allied psychops. Someone posted pic related of Italians hanging some of our guys and it really hit me deep...
>>27690 Why the fuck did I click that spoiler
Where is /fascist/ I miss that place
>>13674 Troy Southgate & National-Anarchism
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>>14192 Simplified basics: 1.All economy is based on productive labour. 2.In return for productive labour you receive a 'receipt' that represents the labour you performed as economic value. In simple terms: perform X amount of work, generate X amount of economic value, get X amount of receipts. 3.These receipt are tokens that can be exchanged for other peoples productive labour ie. goods and services. 4.The name of these receipts/economic value tokens is money 5a.If i print off some money in my shed and spend it i will initially boost the local economy but will increase inflation. 5b.If i destroy all the money in the area i will reduce inflation but harm business by reducing disposable income. 6.By artificially increasing or decreasing the amount of money in the local economy i effectively control it without performing any productive labour myself. I am counter fitting economic value ie.counter fitting Labour. 7.This is exactly what (((central banks))) have been doing for over a century. Pulling the strings of economy and thus labour (jobs, businesses), government (that the (((central bank))) lends our currency to at interest) and through them manipulating society and our Nations. 8.Economic chaos, massive debt and subsequent massive taxation ensues. Dancingjews.wav Solution: 1.Slaughter every single jew without exception and abolish their system of capitalist control. 2.The government issues the Nations currency without borrowing it and issues it without charging interest. 3.The amount of economic value tokens thats money to you, bucko issued is directly related to gross domestic product (GDP) with the sole purpose of enabling the productive labour it represents to be exchanged by your people for other goods and services. https://archive.org/details/federcollectedwritings_201912
>>13762 Faggot. 'This future will be ours, or it will not be at all. Liberalism will die so that Socialism may live. Marxism will die so that Nationalism may live.' The Nazi-Sozi; Germanys freedom, J. Goebbels. To be a Nationalist require you be a socialist. To be a Socialist requires you be a Nationalist. This is because Nationalism & socialism are both the aim of making the existence & betterment of your people pre-eminent. Internationalism is neither nationalist or socialist since other nations are not our own. >>14134 >>14225 >muh normies, muh opdiks Read 'In Hoc Signo Vinces' https://archive.org/details/rockwellwhitepower >>14162 Totalitarianism is the attempt to control every aspect of a nations life. This is not only impossible & self defeating, it is completely unnecessary. Our aim as National Socialists is to create a healthy social ecology that promotes the best & does not tolerate weakness & degeneracy - any action can be done to ensure this. This social ecology (organic society) is freedom guided by the morality of nature (Natural Law). Natural Law is itself totalitarian thus we have no need to attempt to be so ourselves. All we need do is clear away the rot, cut out the cancer & allow healthy growth to resume. Care must be taken to weed out the sick & worthless, but within the frame work of a healthy social ecology guided by Natural Law people are far better able to govern their own private affairs. So no, National Socialism not totalitarian. https://archive.org/details/moremoralitylessmoralismgoebbels
>>14162 Forgot to add pic related.
>>22106 No he wasn't. He was Spanish and Spaniards are Catholic as fuck, give him a break, jeez. One positive comment about Christianity and you go nuts. Not everyone you disagree with slightly is a Jew you fucking tard, he had a different perspective, deal with it. This is why /pol/ never gets anywhere. A lot of it might just be glowniggers trying to divide people as much as possible over every little disagreement, they've done that for a while but at this point I don't even know if they need to since folks here do the work for them anyway, y'all have learned to be super paranoid about anyone that has even slightly different views. The post is a few months old but I thought it warranted a reply anyway.
>>19495 > Hitler wasnt christian

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