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Gaining Leverage Anonymous 12/30/2019 (Mon) 07:15:18 ID:a5c2ad No. 19639
My brothers, we are in need of direction. Instead of being pedestrians in a changing world, it would benefit us to take realistic steps towards empowering our community. What can most of us agree on that can deliver immediate dividends? Here are 3 points that the majority will understand are beneficial and achievable: •Embrace technology: Our people are characterized by our contributions to technology; these material achievements enabled our eminence in the world. As the relationship between technology and humanity grows more intimate, it makes sense to stay ahead of the curve. No matter what background we come from or lifestyle we choose, we should instill and promote technological education among our community. Let's get away from the fading blue collar sector and integrate ourselves into the digital age. By being technologically oriented, we increase our prominence and decrease our expendability. Let's encourage a culture of science and computer literacy among our young. This will put them on top of a complacent society and enable us to stay competitive. All of our children should know how to code. •Be financially ambitious As we become victims of increasing persecution and an oppressed minority, capital and the opportunities it provides can minimize our vulnerability and maximize our possibilities. Deplatforming, termination and poverty are very real risks that our community is susceptible to. By gaining economic strength, we can better secure ourselves, our families and each other. We can pursue aggressive goals and invest in our future on a literal basis. Money is power and the more you have, the better. •Protect our Speech Whether you agree with free speech or not is irrelevant. Our ability to communicate and develop our culture through open mediums is important. Right now, we are fragmented and disjointed. If we did not have the chans, where would be? Worse off, that's for sure. What happened to 8chan is not good, it sets the precedent that we can be suppressed and reinforces that mentality. Everyday, a new layer of tape is placed over our mouths; by pursuing the above 2 points of emphasis, we will be in more of a position to resist or circumvent this oppression. Knowledge is power and we must keep the tap open. These 3 points are to intended to be as general and widely applicable as possible. They are practical and achievable, all we have to do is put in the effort.
Passive and legal militarization and quiet community building
>>19648 Yes, these methods would be very conducive to those things. Capital transcends any laws against arms when taking into account, business. We could start international security firms, cybersecurity firms, Private Military Companies, become arms and technology manufacturers, etc. We live in a world where anything can be bought and sold, power included.
>>19639 >Embrace technology We should embrace certain elements in technology but we should throw out anything that it's useless, there are many things that plague our society, excess and worship of technology is one of them. If we adapt technology then we should make it more independent of foreign threats,but overall i agree,i just fear that the elites have too much control over all forms of techonlogy, and more often than not a lot of this tech is shilled by kikes for nefarious reasons. >Be financially ambitious I completely agree, i think whites(particular rural whites) should cooperate with friends an try to create communities where they help and backup eachother financially this would allow them to achieve various objectives and the creation of the enterprises you suggest, it would also allow for the creation of closer and more united communities. >Protect our Speech Once again i agree, but this can only be achieved once we have the wealth to back it up, the best we can do is raise constant awareness of the current predictament, and also force the elites to shut down speech in more mainstream channels as to forcefully show normalfags on how bad their situation is.
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Just shy of 50 years late. https://archive.org/details/1972PccV1N1
Good ideas. I think that if we could do it in an organized way. It would multiply our power and we'd be able to grow/ catch up much faster.
>>20035 >We I concur that we're prone to technology worship, it's definitely something to remain self-aware and concious of. As far as "adapting" technology to threats, it's the people ourselves that have to adapt. Technology is a tool and is only as useful as who so is wielding it. We ourselves have to continue changing and evolving, as the intellectual and genetic state of those in our movement is inadequate for the current and coming challenges. All gains we make will have to be defended in a variety of manners from a variey of interlopers and it will be a 24/7 task. A tall order, but all we have to do right now is take the first steps. I'm curious as to what aspects of tech you find "useless" or any other relevant concerns with it. >Finances Yes, I'd love to invest in our communities across the rural, suburban and urban spectrum. I myself am an urbanite primarily, so if you would like to elaborate on what you wish to achieve in our rural communities, that would be very informative and productive. >Speech It's never a good idea to say there's "only" one way to do something. Whilst economic power will be useful in this arena, there are also indirect methods operated through proxies in conjunction with economical "grassroots" approaches that can be utilized to efficacy.
>>20043 The thing about these ideas is that they will have a self-organizing effect. Consider this; as we focus on entry into technological fields, we will become numerically more represented and pervasive in them. So whether in the classroom or workplace, the more we inject ourselves, we increase our chances of finding and networking with each other. The same applies to our businesses, with the added benefit that we can become independent and be able to hire from our communities, further strengthening that web. As you can see now, we are very spread out across the economic spectrum, but by focusing on the areas of tech and finance, we create conditions that precipitate a self-coalescing effect. I like the idea of more active organization, but that is a community effort and its operation contingent on many factors. We should be working on continuing and building this thread to propagate these ideas to our brothers and sisters. The more eyes this reaches, the better.
Be sure to make use of religious exemptions and protections whenever possible.
>>20442 Good idea; will keep that in mind. I suppose now is the time to be supporting and trying to prop up Paganism, although there isn't much compelling material, there. Would be useful if we were more ethno-religious so as to be able to dress in a more tribal fashion, which would differentiate us as a minority and make us recognizable to each other without having to display loaded symbols. Monotheistic religions really excel at eliciting useful amounts of devotion that polytheism fails to do.
>>19639 I get your thinking with the need of direction, and these goals are great, however they are not really tangible ways for anyone to contribute. They are great meta principles of sorts, but can also end up in discussions about technicalities. I like the thought but would spin it along the lines of what one can do now: - Technology Everyone who feel capable should learn to code, statistics, mathematics and various data science topics This way we embrace coming technology, secure our future relevance and can exploit free information to analyze and mine our own information automatically monitor opponents and big brother. Focus on "AI" which is basically all the neural network architectures, focus on easy to learn programming language such as python, that can be used with arduino and other cheap accessible gear, advance to C++ or databases, time can be spent watching youtube tutorials reading e-books and practicing. - Finances Be a local patriot, try to by from your local guy, try to buy domestic, try to sponsor good groups with a small amount when possible. Every penny counts, make sure what you can control helps the right people. - Information warfare & subversion. To ones ability study this and collect/save information. To not get lost focus on military intelligence / counter intelligence methodology, learn how governments and military do, listen to the Bezmenovs, Petrovs, look for literature. Memetics is an actual field of study. - History and philosophy. Read, widen your perspective, learn to observe repeating patterns. Don't get lost in opinions and popular science though. - Subtle Activism Using above points one should be able to see little ways to discretely manipulate ones surroundings. Never being identified is the goal, the many little things matter. - Direct activism Learn from our enemies, learn from history, the printing press used to be restricted, so was reading and the preacher spoke Latin. You can own unlimited printers, use such benefits. With above points one should be able to either craft memes, make flyers, stickers, posters, anything, think IOBTW. If everyone was to drop 10 truth bombs that are well thought out and professionally carried out in the real world every day change would soon be noticeable. Info-graphics, trolling, oxxing traitors, printing quotes straight from wikileaks, sensitive documents etc. - Data collection If good at at tech stuff, consider how easy it is to create bugs, analyze sound, scan radio communication. Find ways to collect information that is not accessible. Hacking can fall under this category, but is demanding and generally leaves a trail compared to setting up a contact microphone bug somewhere. - Expand and share If one masters anything on here, focus at developing tools, apps, templates things other less savvy anons can benefit from. Write guides, share knowledge, code an encrypted forum, etc. - Be sustainable. Learn to use workshop machinery, tool, craft and make things. Can come in handy one day. Having basic tools and machinery are hard assets. Summary, become a ghost, use everything available to us to the maximum, learn to code, learn to program automatic things that can work for you when sleeping, catalog, index, meme, troll and manipulate your surroundings.
>>20588 Thank you for the quality post. I intentionally structured the ideas to be general so as to facilitate brainstorming and community cooperation. Your post is a good example of this. That being said, I am strongly opposed to the spread of propaganda through flyers, posters and general concerted "redpilling". They tend to be antagonistic in nature and it is undesirable to be conveying the impression of being a hostile element; I am extremely confident that coming together as an oppressed minority struggling for self-determination is a much more sympathetic cause to the public. I also depart with you on finances; I would rather see our people being frugal, even if they have to buy from opponents, momentarily. Domestic is much more expensive than foreign and every penny squandered on civic nationalism is a penny unspent for ethnic interests. As far as technology is concerned, it should all be embraced. Computing, robotics, engineering, biology, all of it. The future generations should be able to walk into a STEM class and know they're in good company; although, I certainly understand your practical approach to it and encourage that base level of competency among ourselves, as well. The underlying sentiment of this is ambition. To encourage our people not to merely settle for cute little activities like redpilling and SIG masturbation, but to get very aggressive about gaining ground in the technological and financial fields. To be actively acquiring resources and influence for converting into soft and hard power.
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>>20590 No need to thank anybody, it is for the greater good. But due courtesy: thanks yourself for an interesting contribution and discussion. I agree with you. As I said it was a tangible basic approach to illustrate how anybody can act and further our collective goals. > Propaganda I agree, clarification: What I mean is not just AGITPROP, but all possible methods imaginable, that is why I said "professionally carried out". AGITPROP might be necessary until we reach a threshold of awareness, but as you say the associations and connotations carry a cost. That is why such activities should be carried out by the lone wolf ghosts to distance it, public ally endorsed. An example of what i consider good AGITPROP is for example printing he most outrageous double standard side by side media memes, where simple juxtaposition of their own words, spaced 1-2 years a part are polar opposites. Another example is spreading helpful ideas from praised academics that also hold "controversial views" that are downplayed in MSM. Pic related. >Economics I Agree, this was but the foot soldiers simple choices make a difference take. >Technology I Agree, again I illustrated meaningful, simple strategies to instill hope. A buzzword like AI is mostly just Neural Networks, which were invented in 1950s, but became relevant with explosion in computing power, it sounds abstract but it is mostly simple multiplication and addition stacked in many steps. On or two abstract things like understanding a derivative. The same way much advanced knowledge can be built from simple steps, it takes 1-2 years if you don't have prior education, but can be done. University is overrated and revered, it is not what it used to be, many decently clever people can learn many of the same things of youtube/forums. Difference is it is more confusing not having someone point you to proven paths. However even Ivy League schools put lectures online. >Sentiment I agree, I don't want to argue from a point of opposition, but stimulate discussion and contemplation. My philosophy is similar, the right has become the new punk, and somehow became factual and autistic in regards of ethics, truth, principles etc. I think this is just societal evolution, the aspect most detrimental to success in nature is a beings ability to adapt. I think we should push further into this role we have found ourselves in. Let truth, reason and hard earned knowledge wisdom become our hallmark and we will stand against most threats.
>>20591 >Simple strategies, Technology Those were helpful details that flesh out the meta. I've never heard of the Bezmenovs and Petrovs; will investigate. The buzzword propagation is the attempt to spark a flame to be kindled. The reason I want us to be academically represented is to facilitate IRL networking. I see comments on a regular basis about the deficiency of opportunity for those like us to find each other on a face to face basis. Self-teaching is an admirable pursuit, but there is strategic expedience to bodies in the door. I see it as killing 3 birds with 1 stone: Becoming educated (in a few ways), building real life relationships and injecting subversive elements into academia and business. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". >Sentiment >The right has become the new punk Haha, a humorous observation. The rigidity of this movement is frustrating, to say the least. Personally, I do not subscribe to labels like "left, right and center" and view this as a biological and visceral struggle; labels and categories merely convolute and dilute reality with excessive idealism and have a self-handicapping effect. I find it very disadvantageous that we are primarily operating in this intellectual paradaigm and continue to salivate for the cheese within the trap. I understand people want the aesthetics of their idealogies because it creates an image to strive for and helps actualize themselves, but at this point, it's a fatal issue. Adaptability precedes capability.
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Compare and contrast: >>19639 le cuck speech >Everyday, a new layer of tape is placed over our mouths; >tape is placed over our mouths >I'm a bitch pussy that is weak enough to get tape placed over my mouth. le chad speech >Everyday, a new round of vengeance is loaded into our memes; Weakness dies, strength survives. Ask yourself "Why doesn't the Judenfrei coin blockchain already exist?" There's even an ancient Hindu sign already in existence for the cryptocurrency some say. ;^)
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>>20641 Uncucked 16ch logo making use of 8 + 8 don't sperg about comic sans if you don't understand why it should be used in this case
>>20591 >the right has become the new punk Salient point, I have already accomplished this irl. By carefully choosing my attire to send various related signals in addition to the music I listen to and the things I talk about, I have attracted the attention of a couple youths (who already leaned toward counterculture) at work. Not only have I successfully redpilled them on the JQ, they have begun to ask me to send them more information on the topic so they can better explain themselves to their girlfriends and family. Indeed, the cultural tide is shifting and we are making progress.
>>20620 Yuri Bezmenov was a KGB defector, a military intelligence officer who spilled the beans on Marxist brainwashing, basically foretold all that we have become. Has given a few lectures before he died: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgmg2VFX058 Konstantin Petrov was also a soviet then russian intelligence officer, delivered similar breakdowns 2 decades after Bezmenov, goes into more of the NWO stuff, that was not really rolled out during bezmenovs years at KGB academy and training. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGXgF8dCQI&list=PLXRwlj5rPWgiyS9uvFodinkLJTGQpSJdU My motto is to mainly look at the MILINT perspective, politics is puppet theater for retards, it does not matter in the end, everyone is in someones pocket and Zionists/globalists/masons run the bigger show. MILINT accepts these facts and treat the world objectively, as you will see in Bezmenovs lectures. Even the KGB considered lefists to be "political prostitutes" not worth dirt for selling out everything to promote their own greatness and virtue, lacking ethics and principles. They called them "useful idiots", they were to be lined up and shot during a revolution. They were throw away disposable retards to be manipulated for ones causes. Conservatives were considered to be harder targets and more energy was spent subverting conservative influencers and institutions due to their importance. Because of views like these coming from Soviet MILINT i find these type of analyses to be of much higher relevance and accuracy than what ever some political revolutionary or agitator says from his subverted viewpoint and distorted world view. As you say, labels and a "political" filter does not help, only distorts and dilutes ones understanding of the surroundings. Politics is a soothing puppet show for Aunts and Uncles, the plebs, it is there to make them believe in what ever societal model happens to be there when they are born into the world. For them to believe in "democracy" which in fact is only buzzword in almost all "democracies", at the end of the day the zionist interest goes first due to the central bank position in a society. It is constructed for people to remain seated in the boat to quench ideas about insurrection. What has happened is the internet has made things uncontrollable for the powers that be, who are realizing this a little too late. The genies are already out of the bottles, and no ideological or political shoe horn will get them back in there. We adapt and learn, plebs, normies and lefties are slaves and do what they are told, directly or indirectly through group censorship, self censorship and peer pressure. >>20668 Amazing, cant highlight the importance of this enough! Let me use a quote from a dissident here. "You will change more at a keyboard than putting envelopes in a box" Every person you awaken is an ENORMOUS success. Imagine if all of us each inspired 2 people per year like you did, then we would TRIPPLE in numbers every year. That is a very fast exponential growth rate. Memes and antics will work to agitate and get some discussions going, maybe make the media embarrass themselves. But at the end of the day, it is about hearts and minds, and taking it at the individual level. >>20641 I don't think plebs have yet understood the severity of the banking ponzi scheme. They don't understand that the same people and their buddies have around 180 of the worlds central banks under full control. They don't get where the interest rate comes from, they think "inflation" is just a law of nature. Maybe the time will come... >>20642 Pretty funny, but something like this, cryptic and obviously hinting at a right wing ideology could be used to carefully hint at this place on other boards. I use 4^2c or 4**2c when speaking on 4pol, 16c is too obvious,figured that if only people who understand exponents come here it is a great thing...
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BTW, on the main topic! Statistics, statistics, statistics and more statistics. It is neither complex or difficult, only abstract to get an intuitive understanding of. One should never fall for leftist talking points like "anything can be proven with statistics" and claims that numbers can be sampled or slanted to better ones position. This is only true if you lie and misrepresent, thus manipulate people, which any word or writing does just as well. It is something ignorant people say, repeating some pseudointellectual bullshit they heard somewhere to sound sophisticated. By learning statistics you can just skip all the lies and head right to the source, or raw data if necessary, look at how questions in a poll were phrased if needed, and then judge yourself. I was bored earlier today and put this together to argue with normies, but realized it was futile and didn't post it. Things like these speaks volumes and is in my subjective opinion a great way to try to describe a very complex world or phenomena. Yet the very reason I opted to not even bother with them is the reason I think everyone should at least push through some lectures on youtube, read a little, maybe getting a book and even doing some calculations on paper. Easily the most relevant field of mathematics if only one is to be picked. It is the foundation of most data science and AI. AI sounds complex but it is generally just multiplication division addition and subtraction. A few logarithms and exponents for the intermediate level and on-wards... It is desirable to never have to listen to an official figure, but instead go to an institutions website, pull up the same report they are quoiting and use your own interpretation skills. Such an understanding is hard to distort.
>>20642 I like this alot anon!
>>20641 Your little rhetorical posturing is not genuine strength. Some of us don't require incessant cheerleading and reality denial. I certainly wouldn't use stigmatized symbols, like the Swastika, in any important endeavors, either.
>>20678 Thanks for the links, very interesting. >We adapt and learn, plebs, normies and lefties are slaves and do what they are told, directly or indirectly through group censorship, self censorship and peer pressure. Yeah, and our people are guilty of all the same things, in almost comparable degree as the above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by using the term "lefties", you seem to be implying that we are the "right-wing". Is this accurate? >>20679 Certainly, it is another "appeal to authority" tactic to take advantage of those high in agreeableness. Will definitely put some free time into becoming more knowledgeable of this field.
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>>20678 >I use 4^2c or 4**2c when speaking on 4pol, 16c is too obvious,figured that if only people who understand exponents come here it is a great thing.. 4²c for the enlightened mind. Always use the onion address if at all. >>20703 >>strength survives. >is not genuine strength. Uh huh. >>20642 >>20668 >counterculture >punk We wuz jedi un sheeit! Flipping the infinity to make Super Stussy S (& 8s) and punking the colors..
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>>20722 *struck dyslesickaadlfkjda fix
>>20722 Don't chop up what I said to misrepresent me. You were just talking shit and tried to window dress it as virtue. I would appreciate you taking your dorky logos someplace else, instead of trying to derail an otherwise productive thread. You started off by disrespecting me and now you're disrespecting my thread. Either contribute meaningful discussion or leave, please.
>>20705 Nah, I use lefties due to the lack of a good word to describe the braindead pseudo-communist regressive progressive masses that are willing to parrot anything that "sounds good" at the superficial level, to raise themselves above others, the type of people who view Putin as a Nazi king and think Russian bots rule the internet. Maybe we should create a term? I don't believe in contemporary politics, in particular the left-right paradigm that was born in France around the time of the revolution. So I don't expect anyone here to identify by that terminology. But if speaking to a normie/pleb/leftie, I sometimes have to identify as "right wing" due to them not understanding anything but their little cropped spectrum of ideas. >>20722 >>20723 Inclined to agree with above poster, this is not the place to post 4 posts about a pink logo with comic sans. Make a thread about crypto promotion or something. I have plenty of opinions, but will not voice them here and further derail this otherwise good debate.
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>>20724 >You started off by disrespecting me >/pol/ CY Fuck your feelings nigger. You care more about your ego than your race. The rancid odor of weakness is in your words.
>>20729 I think there is a defiency of terms that could be useful, one such example is the lack of a term to refer to non-ethnocentric Whites. I know the typical differntiation is "Lefties or Leftists", but that's too sterile and political. I wish there was something more cultural that directly articulates the schism and alienation between "us" and "them". So far, I've been calling them "post-racial", but while accurate, it's a little too vague and academic. I think the production of a term, that while visceral, is non-derogatory or minimally derogatory, would be productive at furthering the idea that we are a minority and do not identify with the majority of "Whites". The idea is to emphasize our uniqueness and seperate state as a minority group, divorced and unaligned with the majority. This would probably foster a more insular culture and a more cohesive and less politicized identity.
>>20778 Non-ethnocentric Whites = quisling Whites/White quislers
>>20782 Origin is garbage, frames Nazis collaborators as traitors but the definition of 'a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country' is spot on
>>20778 Postmodern is an ok established term. I would prefer to call them authoritarian progressive or totalitarian progressive to stay neutral and use a recognizable term they identify by, but highlight their forcible promotion of their truth an "one solution fits all progressive" ( no breaks full speed ahead rhetoric. It also implies fascist tendencies they exhibit but deny in some sort of blind ignorance. Cultural marxist was a great term but has become tainted and labled as far right terminology. It is what they are though, clearly marxist world views and dichotomies using culture and identy instead of rich/poor. It is hard to find something thar sticks though, a fine balance...
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>>20778 The term cuck seems to fit very well, hence it's widespread usage. Why are you worried about the feelings of these people who clearly hate you and don't care about your feelings? They feel that being a racist is worst thing ever and far worse than anything else imaginable except maybe being nationalist.
>>21547 I don't think anyone cares what they feel about it, it is more about choosing a term that is appropriate and non derogatory, to rise above their name calling. Also using an informative and suitable term is more likely to spread. We need to label them as something anyways, might as well be something academic and serious. Cuck, sure but it only feeds into their view of us, and makes us look stupid in the eyes of plebs. It also carries sexual undertones which is unnecessary. Something painfully accurate and true will hurt them more.
Some great commentary in this thread. I live in a large urban city in one of the last white enclaves. I would like to start a neighborhood club for like-minded and begin networking. The issue is I need to vet prospective members while keeping things FUN and enjoyable. As a dissident Rightwinger I think that flipping Akinsky's Rules4Radicaks to be a good guide. Any thoughts or suggestions? Is doing a newsletter appropriate?
>>20782 >>20812 As I stated earlier, I would like to avoid academic type terms because of their sterility and overly political nature. The point of the term isn't to highlight a mere difference in politics or morality, but to emphasize an alien schism between us and them that transcends the Left-Right spectrum. Take this term for example: "Coconut Muslim". It literally means someone who is brown on the outside, but "White" on the inside. That is more what I would like to approach. >>21547 "Cuck" is also too general and relatively deracialized at this point. Why am I concerned with feelings? Because the point of this is to encourage the image that we are not affiliated with mainstream Whites. The point is to be viewed as a separate group from them; a minority and all the leverage that entails. >>21629 Some good points I agree with, except the academic part. I would like an accessible term that is able to be used by all groups of people, not just the relatively knowledgeable or educated. The goal is this: If someone was to say "White people" to someone else, I want the second person to say "which ones?" We have got to differentiate ourselves and pursue that minority status. Our opponents keep boxing us in as a political group....NO, we are a distinct ethnic group seeking independence.
>>21662 Very tough, how good are you at reading body language and discerning deception? To my knowledge, those types of organizations attract enemies and infiltrators, immediately, due to the public nature of it. Haven't read Rules for Radicals and I'm not a right-winger, so I can't speak on its contents or from that perspective. All I'll say is I'm wary of old-school approaches like the one you propose. Too open and formal in this hostile environment right now, at least for my taste. Sometimes it's good to have a small, but tight circle, rather than a relatively open door. In trying to protect each other, we can't neglect protecting ourselves. I would say to start small, stay small, keep things low-key and watch your back.
*Ahem* I would also like to leave this little piece of European culture here for educational purposes, with excerpts on particularly fascinating parts, link to full article at bottom of post: Omertà (/oʊˈmɛərtə/, Italian pronunciation: [omerˈta])[a] is a Southern Italian code of silence and code of honor that places importance on silence in the face of questioning by authorities or outsiders; non-cooperation with authorities, the government, or outsiders; and willfully ignoring and generally avoiding interference with the illegal activities of others (i.e., not contacting law enforcement or the authorities when one is aware of, witness to, or even the victim of certain crimes). It originated and remains common in Southern Italy, where banditry or brigandage and Mafia-type criminal organizations (like the Camorra, Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta and Sacra Corona Unita) have long been strong. Similar codes are also deeply rooted in other areas of the Mediterranean, including rural Spain, Crete (Greece),[1] and Corsica, all of which share a common or similar historic culture with Southern Italy. Omertà implies "the categorical prohibition of cooperation with state authorities or reliance on its services, even when one has been victim of a crime."[4] A person should absolutely avoid interfering in the business of others and should not inform the authorities of a crime under any circumstances Omertà is an extreme form of loyalty and solidarity in the face of authority. For that reason, many Mafia-related crimes go unsolved Full article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omertà
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>>20585 Daily reminder to support the Odinic lady at Odinia. There is no other pro-white religion.
>>22276 OP here, if you want to push your faith, then push it. Does this have relatively wide appeal, across all European ethnic groups, or is it more constrained to certain groups? What makes it special? Is this just another "moralfag" religion or can it even be embraced by the "sinner"? Does it have the passion of Islam? You bumped the thread; now sell your truth with vigor.


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